Winchester 30-30 – America’s Deer Cartridge
If you're getting long in the tooth like me, chances are your first deer gun was chambered in 30-30 Winchester. Chances are also good that the Winchester 30-30 you had was either a Winchester Model 94 or a Marlin 336 (or one of the many knockoffs).
It's been said that the 30-30 Winchester has killed more Deer than any other cartridge. I'd have to agree with that statement. Even today, I'm betting more Deer fall every Deer season to this 103 year old round than any other.
History of the Winchester 30-30
The 30-30 Winchester started life as the 30 WCF in 1895. Shortly after, Marlin chambered the round in its lever action rifle but didn't want the name "Winchester" on its rifles, so they called it the 30-30. The name stuck.
It was first chambered in the Winchester model 1894.
The 30-30 was the first small bore centerfire round to use smokeless powder. History tells us some guy named Teddy Roosevelt was an avid hunter and owned one of the first 30-30's to come out of the factory.
Teddy use the "thutty thutty" to down an Antelope buck at 220 yards with a 160 grain bullet.
"In the fall of 1896 I spent a fortnight on the range with the ranch wagon. I was using for the first time one of the then new small-caliber, smokeless-powder rifles, a .30-30-160 Winchester. I had a half-jacketed bullet, the butt being cased in hard metal, while the nose was of pure lead."
"They were starting as I raised my rifle, but the trajectory is very flat with the small-bore smokeless-powder weapons, and taking a coarse front sight I fired at a young buck which stood broadside to me. There was no smoke, and as the band raced away I saw him sag backward, the ball having broken his hip."
"As we stood over him, Joe shook his head, and said, 'I guess that little .30-30 is the ace' and I told him I guess so too."
Isn't it ironic that Teddy and the people of that day considered the 30-30 Winchester a flat shooting rifle? I guess compared to a 45-75 with black powder, it would be! (Teddy's favorite 'American' rifle was a Winchester 1876 chambered for the 45-75)
The Modern 30-30 Winchester Rifle
Why has the 30-30 become the most popular round in America? In my opinion, there are a few reasons.
For one thing, the rifles that are chambered for the 30-30 are inexpensive when compared to other rifles chambered for other rounds. It's not uncommon to find a Model 94 Winchester or Marlin 336 in good shape at a Pawn Shop for under $200. These guns are capable of producing acceptable accuracy for deer hunting out to 100 yards or more with a little practice.
My longest shot with a 30-30 was right at 150 yards and I've know a couple others who taken deer past that range. Not that this would be my first choice for those ranges, nearly all the deer I've killed with the 30-30 have been under 100 yards, but in the right hands, it can be an effective round.
Ammo for the 30-30 is generally a few bucks (no pun intended) cheaper than other ammo as well.
The light recoil of rifles chambered for the 30-30 Winchester make them desirable for new Hunters, Women and those who only shoot a rifle a few times a year not to mention those Hunters that are sensitive to recoil.
Finally, the round itself is a solid round. I think it's safe to say the 30-30 Winchester has probably taken everything that walks North America.
The Marlin 336
For my money, I love the feel and handling of the Marlin 336's. My Dad actually bought a Glennfield Model 30A (basically the same as a Marlin 336 but with a shortened magazine) in 1967 to hunt Mule Deer in New Mexico around Chalma. The pictures that he and my Uncle have of the Mulies they killed out there make me drool even today. I'm in most of those pictures, a little two year old cowboy sitting on his knee beaming as if I'd shot those bucks myself! You'll see the Glennfield in those pictures as well.
Today, I own that same rifle. It was the rifle I took my first deer with, a Doe that field dressed 94 lbs. Since then, I've put more than a few deer on the ground with that rifle. Most with open sights. It has only been the last 5 years or so that I mounted a scope on it. The scope does take away some of the rifles quick handling, but it more than makes up for it in improved accuracy.
My Winchester Model 94 Experiences
I have a confession to make about the Model 94 Winchester Rifle. I don't particularly care for them! I much prefer the Marlins over the 94.
My experience with the Model 94 is limited. I've only owned two of the rifles and found both lacking for my needs.
For starters, you couldn't put a scope over the receiver on older Models and the new ones still need the see through mounts to function properly.
Second, I hated the straight stock. It's not nearly as comfortable in my hands as the pistol gripped Marlin.
Next, I hated those freakin' buckhorn sights!
Last but not least, I hated the way the action opens up at the top. There were times when I've be in the tree stand and it would be raining and I'd see drops dripping down on top of the receiver. It used to drive me nuts! I'd then be twisting and turning trying to keep that rifle from getting water in the receiver.
I doubt it would have affected the performance of the rifle, but it drove me crazy thinking about it. All I had to do with the Marlins were turn it right side down on my lap and I didn't have to worry about water getting into the receiver. At least, not where I could see it.
The great gun writer Sam Fadala actually has an entire book on the Winchester Model 94 and the 30-30 Winchester. I recommend anyone thinking about buying a rifle to read it. It's called Winchester's 30-30: Model 94, The Rifle America Loves
Is the 30-30 Winchester Adequate for Deer?
Well, millions of dead Deer are proof that the 30-30 is more than adequate for any Deer that walks this planet.
The 150 and 170 Grain bullets carry enough punch to do a Deer in at ranges out to around 200 yards. Personally, if I knew there would be a chance of a shot like that, I'd use the 170 grain bullet or the new Hornady LeveRevolution.
Speaking of the new Hornady LeveRevolution's, I've never used these rounds. But from what I'm gathering from Hunters in the fields and on the message boards, these rounds are everything they have been touted to be. Flat shooting and hard hitting.
For those of you who haven't heard about the LeveRevolution, they are a polymer spire pointed bullet designed to be used in tubular magazines. The tip is soft and collapses. Hornady and a few Gun Writers have been reporting exceptional accuracy out to 250 yards with these new rounds.
I would never classify the Thutty Thutty as an Elk or Grizzly Bear round, but they have fallen to the 30-30. I've read stories about some Black Bear guides in Canada who prefer the 30-30 over a shotgun because of the quick handling characteristics and short range stopping energy of the 170 grain bullet.
Hunters using the Winchester 30-30 have several choices when it comes to ammo.
Remington offers the 125 grain Accelerator and most ammo manufacturers offer both the 150 and 170 grain factory loads. I've always preferred the 170 grain offerings over the 150 grainers. Don't ask me why, I just prefer the heavier bullet.
For several years, I used the Remington 170 grain hollow points. These were deadly Deer takers! I stopped using them when I shot a large 8 point at about 80 yards. I later found the fragmented bullet on the far front leg, a few inches above the "elbow", where it had broken the bone. I wasn't crazy about finding pieces of my bullet even if it had went through the buck and busted his leg on the far side. I went back to the 170 grain soft nosed bullets.
Many so called "Professional Gun Writers" over the years have put down the little Thutty Thutty, saying things like it wasn't adequate out past 75 yards, that it wasn't accurate enough for deer hunting, etc. It was obvious that they had never shot a 30-30 or had just borrowed one in order to write an article.
I have a theory of why blunt tipped bullets in rounds like the 30-30 Winchester kill deer better than what many Gun Writers would like.
I believe that a blunt tipped bullet, be it a round nose or flat nose, delivers more of its kinetic energy upon impact than spire tipped bullets. Even the poly tipped bullets have to penetrate a certain depth before the start expanding and delivering their load of kinetic energy. Truth be known, many of spire pointed bullets use up the majority of their kinetic energy in the dirt on the other side of the animal.
Blunt tipped bullets are also known to penetrate deep. Couple this with the shock due to the sudden impact of a blunt tipped bullet and you have a recipe for a quick kill on a game animal.
Whether you contemplating buying a rifle for a first time hunter, or buying a rifle for yourself, don't count out the Winchester 30-30 and the Rifles it is chambered for. They're perfect for the first time hunter or the Old Fart who just wants a lighter hunting rifle. Put a quality scope on the top of the rifle and you'll have a life long rifle that will bring home the Venison if the shooter does their job!
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20 Responses to “Winchester 30-30 – America’s Deer Cartridge”
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I shot a spike buck from my blind in Beford PA about 5 years ago. I practiced all year with the marlin 336 and a new Tasco 3×9 scope. This gun is 30 years old I got it when I was fourteen. I made a clean kill a 300 yards with a 170 grain remmington off the shelf amunition. The bullet broke both front sholders and exited the deer. I had to have it confrirmed so I made my father walk over to the deer and we measured it out at 300 yards from my blind.Doubt them if you will but I would not stand out at 250 yards and say you are out of range for that 30/30. My father is in love with his savage 30/30 pump.
I like the 30-30, after having gone though 30-06, 270, shotguns, and multiple muzzle loaders. I should have started with the Marlin and stayed. Plenty of power for deer as far out as I have any business shooting, and all the while easy on the shoulder, ears, and wallet. And the Marlin is such a beautiful, classy rifle. And so deadly on deer, if I do my part.
i like it
All the reasons you hate the Win 94 are the reasons I like them! I prefer the open sights (especially in thick bush), love the straight stock for carrying/handling, love the buckhorn sights for quick aiming and for some odd reason, I just like the top action.
Most definitely the best hiking/deer gun that I can think of.
I took my first deer with this gun. And I broke its shouldrer, turning into splinters. Took a bite out of it’s heart and created a plate sized pie at 30 yards. The deer dropped on the spot like on some of the TV shows where someone is shot and they drop right there. More than sufficient unless you are in the plains out west.
don’t underestimate the killing power. Every moose that went into my freezer was killed with my model 94 3030. They are a tough rifle. You can throw them in the bottom of the boat, step on them, wipe them off and use them. Everyone that has one knows they are light and easy to drag through the bush…..
Been hunting with a .30-30 sc marlin for over fifty years a game harvester if some care is taken will take larger animals than deer if range and angle are considered. great woods round. like the 170gr. would if had the chance hunt mule deer and elk and not feel undergunned at short, medium range good old cartridge the .30wcf
I started hunting deer in deep South Texas about 60 years ago. Back then most of the old timers used .44/40 rifles, either Winchester or Marlin. My father owned a .30/30 Savage 99 and my two uncles shot a .300 Savage model 99 and a .30/30
Winchester 94. When I was nine my great uncle Jonny gave me his 24″ octogonal barreled Marlin 1894 in .44/40 caliber. Nobody thought they were undergunned or old fashioned, and nobody bought their rifles because they were “cheap” (like the author suggests). These were rural men, men of the woods who lived on ranches and worked in the outdoors all their lives. They could cut sign better then most, knew every plant and whether it was edible or medicinal. They walked quietly and all of them had mastered huntering before they were teenagers.
In the 1940s and 1950s a new crop of gun writers came along and they all used bolt action rifles, and while they were indeed good writers they weren’t necessarily good hunters. They had the money and the accessibility to remote hunting lands but they were only mediocre hunters. Instead, they relied on firearms technology to kill game and not true hunter’s prowess.
This trend has continued as more and more “hunters” go into the wilds every year straight from the big cities and corporate offices. The meteroic growth in game-farms with high fences and “cultivated” deer in my state of Texas has only exacerbated this downward trend away from hunting and into technology and business.
After all these years I still hunt using now in my old age a Marlin 1894 in .357 caliber. My younger brother (76) uses the Winchester .30/30 our Dad gave him years ago.
Truth is (after shooting about 300 white-tails in my hunting life) I can’t find fault in any .30/30. It has all the power anybody, anywhere would ever need for deer — unless you’re an urbanite with little to no experience and a obsessive need to remain that way. AND/OR, if you are a modern gun writer who sits on his escondido and pops deer at 300 yards with a .300 WSM or the like.
You’ll just have to decide. You wanna learn to be a hunter or do you wanna just hang something on your wall in order to impress your friends and indulge you delusions. You decide. All of us old timers will keep going out as long as we are able, doing what we’ve been doing for well over 50 years — hunting! We’ll bring home the venison (not all torn up) and as the years go on we’ll have forgotten more about the woods than the corporate boys will ever hope to know. No brag, just fact.
Just have to say, I’ve been hunting since I was 12 and my grandfather bought me a Savage Model 170 30-30 pump. I’ve killed many deer with that rifle and continue to do so to this day. Sometimes I begin to feel ashamed using this gun but then I’m the one coming home with venison on a regular basis. Only ever lost one deer with this gun and it wasn’t the guns fault. I have killed many deer with a patched .50 cal round ball. Some of these powerbelt bullets and super caliber centerfires are just hype for a whitetail in PA. Just my thoughts. I may find it hard to pass on the 30-30 to my son when the time comes, I may just have to buy him a new one
.
I just wish remington woul offer 30/30 in its pump rifel.
The last deer I killed with my 30-30 was at a 120 yards with a 170 grain win. power point, it went in the neck and out the top of his head. The gun writers must not hunt with the 30-30. This is a great gun to hunt with especially here in the deep south.
It is false to say that the new model 94s need see-through mounts. I have two-piece steel mounts on mine. These with medium profile rings are sweet. No function proplems with this because of the angle eject.
Actually, there are a lot of so-called “experts” and “gun writers” who give this cartridge it’s due. The fact that we’re still having this conversation to this day is evidence of this caliber’s popularity, ability and longevity. Lever actions are all I carry when hunting whitetails and I never feel undergunned. I like the light weight and fast-handling characteristics that lever guns bring to the hunt. I had a Winnie 94 in 30-30 about 25 years ago. I killed several deer with that rifle, most with only 1 shot, at ranges from 50-150 yards, using factory Win and Rem ammo. I used it for woodchucks, too, and became so proficient with it that I could take them at 200 yards with a good rest…and this was with open sights! I sold that rifle later on when money was tight and have regretted that decision ever since. Later, I got a Marlin 336 30-30 that I topped with a scope as my eyes began failing and this one continued to fill the freezer. I’ve tried Hornady Leverevolution ammo and found it to be very accurate, but no more so than Win Power Point 170s @ 100 yards in my rifle. Haven’t tried it for hunting, though, despite having several boxes. Just can’t bring myself to change….if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! Besides, most of my hunting is done where ranges rarely exceed 100 yards, rendering the Hornady ammo unnecessary. And, in my opinion, the blunt tip bullets deliver more energy to a deer’s vitals than a spire tip bullet. No exit wound? No problem…max energy delivered and dumped on target!
Brought one of those “Canadian centennial” models at a local estate sale last winter. The previous owner got it in 1967, never fired a shot out of it. It was literally a wallhanger to give his house the ‘western’ decor.
What a shame never to use it, and such a beautiful rifle: Figured walnut stock, black chrome receiver with maple leaf inlays, heavy octagon barrel and gold inlaid lettering.
I have ‘de-virginized’ it with lots of practice and load testing for the perfect handload. Settling on the new Hornady 160gr FTX @ 2050 fps using Ramshot’s “TAC” powder.
It’s very accurate and the results are consistently repeatable. Muzzle heavy, which is a good thing, as there’s less wobble shooting offhand.
We’ll put it to the acid-test in a few weeks when deer season starts
I am a novice!!! So forgive me in advance. But have started hunting recently with my father inlaw in Vermont who loves his fifty year old Winchester 3030. He suggested the Marlin 336 in 3030 to me for what seemed at the time an odd reason. He said the caliber is great to 100 to 150 yards and in the dirt at 300 yards. He said 270s and 30-06s and others are technologically superior rounds in every way but the balance of 3030 makes it better. In Vermont the landscape is farm fields then roads then farm houses then hamlets with forest in between. The 30/30 is great at short ranges and safer too.
The gun writers are in business to sell concepts for their corporate meal tickets. The post by Jonas above, is spot on!
If you need more than a 30-30 than you’re either out on the plains or shooting canyon to canyon. I HUNT in the woods. Hunting and shooting are two very different things.
I hunted a few years back with a guy from the city and he had a few opportunities to kill bucks but he couldn’t quite get his scope up and lined up in time (300 Win Mag). A friend’s 30-30 killed one of the buck’s our city boy failed to get a shot off at. Oh wel…
The 30-30 in my experience at 25-125 yards knocks deer into the next world pretty good. Throw it up and squeeze that trigger, bang flop.
Got my Winchester 94 new for Christmas in 1975. I’m 53 now with “progressive lenses” and can still hold 5 shots in 3 inches at 100 yrds with it and a good rest. It’s the closest thing to carrying a pistol in your hand in the woods and that counts for something on an all-day still hunt in the eastern West Virginia mountains. Anyone who says the 30-30 is too weak for whitetails in the woods is a simpleton and/or a poor shot and is blaming the round for his poor marksmanship. If I’m hunting the open fields/prairies/grasslands I’ll probably take my .270 Winchester but, if I’m in the woods “get me my ‘94.” It just gets sweeter as the years go by.
as an experienced middle-age hunter, I’ve become “hooked” on the modern lever-gun/Hornady LEVERevolution combo. Our woods are hard and dense, so the .30-30 is ideal. But the mountains are rugged, making the smaller carbine-size also ideal. The only remaining block was mental (the envisioned 200yd shot)…so I added a 4×32 scope and the Hornady ammo and now I’m confident hunting everything in NE, including moose (which I did last year) with this setup.
I acquired my Marlin 336 RC at 13 years of age in 1965 with my Press Route $$. I handload for it with IMR 3031 the best for me. 170 grain Hornady and 150 grain spire points (2 shot tube feeder) I was ahead of “leverevolution.” I have a fixed 4 power wide angle scope mounted with see-thru to use iron sites. Iron sites right on at 50 yards with 2 shots right next to each under. Scope at 100 yards. Have gotten Deer, Squirrel, & Partridge with this rifle. Going into woods next week here in Michigan. Also use .303, 7.65 x 53, and 6.5 x 55. Rounds that have been here before 1900 and still taking Venison in 2009 & beyond.
My stepdaughter, her husband and the three grand kids all hit the woods last weekend using Marlin 336s. Mine is a .35 Remington and the other five are 3030 Winchester caliber using the 170 grain bullets. We sight all of our rifles in at one quarter inch high at 50yds. We were hunting the 500 acres of thick southern hardwoods that my Grandfather bought 100 years ago….no problem, over three days we all harvested our deer with one shot kills….range was from 30 to 80 yards. Nothing beats a good Marlin 336 and a Bushnell 4200 Elite in my opinion for hunting in the woods.
I bought a .30-30 10 years ago for my first rifle. It doesn’t get used to much for anything other than practice because a lot of the area I hunt is limited to shotgun only. With a scope on, shooting 170gr bullets, I’ll get a 3 inch group at 100 yds all day long. 2 years ago, my disabled uncle asked if I had a gun he could borrow to go on a Whitetail hunt for hunters with disablities. Spending a day in the field is hard enough for him, much less carrying around a gun. He found my .30-30 to be very comfortable, easy to carry, and packed plenty of punch to drop a doe where she stood. In light of his success, I made it a point this year to hunt in rifle areas. Unfortunately I never had a chance at a shooter deer, but I did pick off a coyote at 175 yds. I love the gun and hope to have opportunites for Whitetails with it for years to come.